Look at the following Wikipedia entries. As you read them, consider how we use the following terms and how they function in your life and how they affect you.
Pride
Arrogance
Humility
An interesting article--please read.
The Shrinking of Man
Click below and read what some world realigions say about humilty.
Religious Texts on Humility
Post comments--perhaps with links to interesting finds--and quote what you find most compelling . Explain your take on pride and humilty.
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19 comments:
I feel that based on our societal values and morals there is nothing inherently problematic about Pride, however I feel that many of its offspring can be seen in a very negative light. Many religious texts place emphasis on the love of God over the love of self. If I remove the God part from this statement, to me it says that to be entirely focused on oneself, and therefore remaining very close minded, leaves you in a place where you will never change your mind. No matter how wrong about something you may be, or no matter how much sense what somebody is saying to you makes sense, you will not accept it because you are too prideful to admit that they are right. I know that personally I have had issues with listening to other people simply because I didn't want to be wrong.
Connor and Trevor- We don't agree with the one of the Catholic saints definition of humility found in the Catholic Encyclopedia. St. Bernard defines it: "A virtue by which a man knowing himself as he truly is, abases himself." this seems counter-productive, and pointless. I understand that when you accept "God" what you're really accepting is the virtues, but it seems like the church wants you to have low self esteem so they can tell you what to do.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07543b.htm
"The vices opposed to humility are: (A) pride (by reason or defect). (B) a too great obsequiousness or abjection of oneself, which would be an excess of humility; This might easily be derogatory to a man's office or holy character; or it might serve only to pamper pride in others, by unworthy flattery, which would occasion their sins of tyranny, arbitrariness, and arrogance. The virtue of humility may not be practiced in any external way which would occasion such vices or acts in others."
-Wikipedia: Humility
I find the vice (B) or too much humility interesting. Will Dante address this later in purgatory? I don't think we saw this in the first circle, but it could definitely show up later.
you can exsperience all three of these morals-i think you, just have to watch and be careful how far you go with them, prid can turn into arrogance, if you have to much humility you'll get walked all over, and some moments in life can't have the best out come with simply,"Staying humble." Now im not saying you have to be a hard ass, just don't dive in too deep with any of these morals. but hey, you cant really tell when your deeply arrogant...
The body is impure, bad-smelling, and replete with various kinds of
stench which trickle here and there. If one, possessed of such a body,
thinks highly of himself and despises others--that is due to nothing
other than his lack of insight.
Buddhism. Sutta Nipata 205-06
The fool who knows that he is a fool is for that very reason a wise man;
the fool who thinks he is wise is called a fool indeed.
Buddhism. Dhammapada 63
So.. because i know i'm a fool, that makes me a wise man. But then, now i'm a fool who thinks he's a wiseman. So i'm a fool again. But i know i'm a fool, so i'm a wiseman again. But then again i'm a fool for writing this.
When i was looking at what other religions thought of pride, this quote from the Islam religion was particularly interesting,
Muhammad said: "He in whose heart there is as much as a grain of arrogance will not enter paradise."
When I was looking at humility, this quote really stood out for me:
"True humility" is distinctly different from "false humility". "False humility" consists of deprecating one's own sanctity, gifts, talents, and accomplishments for the sake of receiving praise or adulation from others.
Throughout life, we have been taught to be confident, and proud of ourselves. So when does it go too far, and how are we to know?
Are we sinning when we think with confidence? We understand that in excess we are sinning, but how are we to know when it is too much?
-Chelsea and Emily, philosophy lovers.
this is actually sofia. i was interested by the article on the smallness of man, and Moses' humility because of his greatness. it seems to me like humility is really just putting your confidence in God instead of in yourself, which is actually pretty useful, because then you can accept 'rewards' and 'punishments,' or the natural ups and downs of life as simply God's will, and you know that whatever good comes to you is truly deserved. it seems as though proper humility would, instead of being self-hate, be a removal of all self-doubt, as you would recognize that your talents and weaknesses are what God wants from you.
secularly, though, pride/humility is a difficult concept. pride especially, as everyone seems to have their own interpretation. some think of it as arrogance, some as healthy self-confidence. i think of the book Pride and Prejudice, where one of the central issues is how people's different use and interpretation of the concept of pride can put them in total opposition, when at heart they are completely kindred spirits.
There are two kinds of egotists: Those who admit it, and the rest of us. —Laurence J. Peter
Pride is a tricky thing, its always hard to tell when you cross the line of excess. When do you stop enjoying winning a game, and start defining your self by that win?
"Modern man is both blessed and cursed by the increasing evidence of his smallness. Our challenge is to avail ourselves of both blessings: to couple our knowledge of how small we truly are with our sense of how great we can truly be. To become humbly great, which is the greatest kind of humility there is." -The Shrinking Man
We found this quote and thought it was a good way to slove and describe humility.
Pride has a time and a place, but you should not let it consume you. It is good to be proud of what you are, or what you do, but never to think yourself superior.
Dane the Pain Train & Sarah
Aidan and i noticed that there was a big difference between the christian meaning of the word humility and the buddhist meaning of humility. For instance christianity defines it as:
"A quality by which a person considering his own defects has a humble opinion of himself and willingly submits himself to God and to others for God's sake." its more about bowing to god... "its like hey god kicks ass like 24/7 yeah..."-Aidan... and buddhism is more concerned with acknowledging your own imperfections. We personally think that the buddhist meaning of the word is more ethical...
"the wisdom of realizing one's own ignorance, insignificance and lowliness, without which one cannot see the truth."
James-Aidan
"Arrogant (pronounced /ˈærəgənt/) is an adjective that may refer to having excessive pride in oneself. A person who is posterpritaneous may exaggerate their own worth or importance in an overbearing manner." -the geniuses of wikipedia
Pride is a very prominent fact of our culture. People take pride in their history, in their work, in their family. But it is when that pride becomes excessive, becomes arrogance, that a person can become posterpritaneous. We all know someone who has taken that extra step, and gone from being annoying to a total jerk, and thus becomes a posterpritaneous person.
I think that Dante-pilgrim edges on turning into this person many times in the course of his journey. During his stroll through Hell, he acted superior to the souls writhing in pain, and the deeper he crawled, the more posterpritaneously he acted to the souls. While at first consumed with pity for them, he eventually realized that he has yet to commit any of the sins that sink a soul into the deepest circles of Hell, and treated those icy souls as lesser beings than he.
Thank goodness we are in purgatorio now, and Dante-pilgrim can begin to act like a pilgrim again.
From Maddie-
From reading the religious texts I’m not sure I agree with what is said in the Koran about pride. Although I don’t agree with it I feel that Dante’s stance on pride is very similar to that stated in the Koran. He seems to believe that to be entered into "Heaven" you must be fully stripped of all sinful acts.
While looking at pages on Humility it kept going back to the idea that if you re humble you are a nobody. Because you have no pride in who you are you are just a shadow in the eye of the world. It makes humble seem like a bad thing... a hindrance in our super competitive society. Without pride in what you do and who you are you can't move forward. You can't make a difference in the world. The virtue of humility seems to have flip-flopped in society with pride and people generally think of arrogance(offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride) or vanity(excessive pride in one's appearance, qualities, abilities, achievements, etc.; character or quality of being vain; conceit) as the sin, not just pride as a whole, when regarding the 7 deadly sins.
what does posterpritaneous mean devon? i'm confused
What limit is there to pride and arrogance, Muhammed said that there is not but a grain of arrogance to be allowed into paradise, but to be watching your behavior may drive a man to be insane. Always questioning whether or not something “too” proud or “too” arrogant would distract one from the path of God. Therefore, there must be some arrogance and some pride to had to keep one from being too distracted. But are we to be punished for it?
"On the other hand, if man is insignificant, then he serves no higher purpose. "I am nothing" can be just another way of saying, "There's nothing but me."
..
Really? I don't get this at all. If one is saying that there is no me and there is no higher purpose, why should you not belive in everything else? I belive that it is possible to claim that I have no purpose, and everything else has no purpose. Is this pride? if someone can give a an answer then please, go ahead....
--Doug G.
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